Black Dog getting squeezed out of Mt. Hood National Forest?

Discuss the Black Dog Ride!

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Postby Tawmass » Wed Jun 30, 2004 8:23 pm

Pressly,
Just got a copy of your letter to USFS. YOU ROCK! Thanks for taking the time. Was impressed with your message and being polite.
thanks!
-Tom
You don't stop riding because you grow old, you grow old because you stop riding.
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Postby pressly400 » Thu Jul 01, 2004 7:01 am

My pleasure to help, Tom.

The trends that I have observed over the past 25 years are not encouraging. All we can do is to keep insisting on our fair share!
you are burning daylight, go faster!

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We're wining in the Supreme Court, lets give the greens HELL

Postby DaddyBigDaddy » Thu Jul 01, 2004 4:13 pm

MEDIA RELEASE
____________

SUPREME COURT REJECTS ANTI-ACCESS GROUP'S SUIT AGAINST BLM
Unanimous decision upholds ruling in Utah District Court made by BRC

June 15, 2004 Pocatello Idaho

In a unanimous decision, the Supreme Court upheld a Utah District Court
ruling dismissing claims brought in 1999 by the Southern Utah Wilderness
Alliance (SUWA) and other anti-access groups against the Bureau of Land
Management (BLM). The suit targeted BLM's alleged inaction in managing off
highway vehicle ("OHV") access. SUWA's demands to immediately close nine
popular OHV recreation areas were rejected by the Utah District Court, but
that decision was reversed by the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals. Both the
BLM and the OHV groups petitioned for review with the Supreme Court. The
Court granted review and heard argument in March of this year.

"Needless to say, we're delighted", said Bill Dart, Executive Director of the
BlueRibbon Coalition (BRC). BRC led a coalition of OHV enthusiast groups who
successfully petitioned for defendant-intervenor status to aid BLM's defense
of OHV management.
"We are pleased the Justices rejected the 'management through litigation'
model that is popular with anti-access groups," Dart added.

The case before the Supreme Court turned on a fairly complex jurisdictional
point. The Administrative Procedure Act allows lawsuits to compel
nondiscretionary actions that have been unlawfully withheld or unreasonably
delayed. The OHV groups convinced the District Court that SUWA?s claims went
far beyond this standard and were really attempting to dictate the everyday
activity of the BLM. Thus, the case focused on the degree to which private
parties dissatisfied with government action can sue the agency under an
alternate "failure to act" theory.

Justice Antonin Scalia said SUWA's argument would insert the court into the
day-to-day operations of the agency and "would divert BLM's energies from
other projects throughout the country that are in fact more pressing. While
such a decree might please the environmental plaintiffs in the present case,
it would ultimately operate to the detriment of sound environmental
management."

"We have raised these arguments with limited success since the mid 1990's,
and it is reassuring to see the Court has ultimately agreed with our
analysis," noted Paul Turcke, the Boise, Idaho lawyer acting as lead counsel
for the OHV groups. "This case was never about limiting legitimate review of
formal agency decisions, but will clarify that disgruntled and well-funded
special interest groups cannot interfere with the ongoing administrative
process simply by claiming the agency is failing to act," Turcke concluded.
According to BlueRibbon Coalition sources, there are numerous other cases at
various levels of the federal court system that will be affected by this
ruling.

###

The BlueRibbon Coalition is a national recreation group that champions
responsible use of public and private lands, and encourages individual
environmental stewardship. It represents over 10,000 individual members and
1,100 organization and business members, for a combined total of over 600,000
recreationists nationwide. 1-800-258-3742. www.sharetrails.org

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Update: Mt. Hood NF

Postby Tawmass » Fri Jul 02, 2004 12:57 pm

Okay, I talked at length to both the Recreation Coordinator (Christine) and ranger (Dennis) and here's what they had to say:

* No trails THIS year, because they think we routed riders in areas not allowed last year. I beg to differ with this and will confirm next week.
* They said that if riders go off the designated route this year, then no permit will be issued next year! As I say in my preride sheet, you MUST stay on the course and not stray.
* The ranger said that the biggest threat to us using Mt. Hood in the future is all the quad riders making rogue trails at will - not motorcycles.


So there you have it: no trail this year, but possibly next year. I STILL plan on meeting with the big man, Gary Larsen, about where the OHV plan is for Mt. Hood and why our needs are not being addressed. Will probably have more at the morning Rider's Meetings.
Ride on,
-Tom
You don't stop riding because you grow old, you grow old because you stop riding.

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Postby briffee66 » Sat Jul 03, 2004 7:57 pm

I guess I don't quite understand how the ATV folks can be a threat to the motorcycle community down there. They're not allowed to ride on the forest service roads are they???

Maybe it's my narrow Washington experience, but up here, all the forest service roads are strictly off-limits to the ATV crowd. Only vehicles with a license plate are allowed; hence the green crowd makes it as hard as possible to get one. But ATVs have to go play on trails that are specifically okay for them to mess up.

I don't hate ATV riders, although they don't know what they're missin'! I just don't appreciate what they do to otherwise fairly nice trails in Gifford Pinchot up here...rut the heck out of them. So I guess I share his frustration with the ATV folks. Hey, I know! Let's all teach them to ride proper off-pavement vehicles!

My husband Mike and I are soooo looking forward to this. We've never spent much time around Mt. Hood, and we were unable to attend this last year. Thanks for hanging in there and working through this, Tom.

-Belinda (and Mike) Lawson
Sammamish, WA
Proud riders of a plated, quiet, geared-down, well-mannered KTM 525 MXCs 8)

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Postby neiltkool » Mon Jul 05, 2004 3:15 pm

On this beautiful holiday weekend celebrating the birth and independence of our free nation, it saddens me to read this thread and learn of yet another example of government regulators and special interest groups infringing upon our rights as responsible, legal and tax paying off-road motorcycle riders.

After literally months of looking forward to riding the “A” course of this year’s Black Dog on my very first dual sport motorcycle (I’ve been lucky enough to borrow and have ridden previous Black Dog “A” and “AA” routes before) I was devastated to receive my pre-ride “poop” sheet in the mail last week and learn that there would be no trail riding sections in this years course. A quick check of this message board confirmed my worst suspicions. I understand that the forest is unusually dry and if Hood River County feels that they must close down their trails this year then I guess I can accept that, but what the United States Forest Service is doing to Tom Niemela and Northwest Tour & Trail is completely unacceptable. To be accused of going off course nearly a year after the fact or to be held responsible for the actions of other less considerate forest users is completely unreasonable. I have very limited experience volunteering and working for various dirt bike clubs, but I can imagine the monumental amount of work and energy that it takes to put on a ride as fine as the Black Dog. It frustrates me to no end to think that the USFS, Mt Hood National Forest or anyone can make good dirt bike clubs jump through a seemingly never ending and ever changing series of hoops all in order to put on and enjoy organized rides that should be well within our legal rights as responsible forest and public land users. As I said before, I’ve ridden previous Black Dogs and know for a fact that NWT&T does everything within their power, going above and beyond the call of duty in my opinion, to promote responsible and legal dual sport motorcycle riding. To this end, I’ve made the difficult and extremely disappointing decision not to ride in this year’s Black Dog Dual Sport event. Rather, I’m choosing to sit this one out in protest of what I feel is unfair and unreasonable practices by the USFS towards NWT&T specifically and dual sport motorcycle riders in general. By not participating in this year’s event, I estimate that I won’t be contributing $215 towards the local economies of the various small Mt Hood communities. While it is not my intention to punish the local business or their employees, I want them to know that when the USFS treats us unfairly, it effects them to. From my cancelled cabin reservation at Mt Hood Village to the local gas station where I would have filled up my truck and bought Gatorades, I have more than one way to “vote” or make my opinion heard. I’m tired of being made to feel like a bad citizen just because I choose to ride motorcycles on public land. It’s my hope that the local businesses will join us in our effort in demanding fair and equal access for all forest user groups. The USFS must not be allowed to think that they can close down the trails just two weeks before our ride without any negative repercussions or consequences.

Throughout all of this however, I won’t be asking for a refund of my two-day pre-entry fee from NWT&T. I feel that none of this is their fault and if anything, I feel that they have earned my money more this year than in any of the years past. It sounds as though Tom plans on having some sort of letter writing table sometime during the event. Perhaps my $60 could go towards buying envelopes and postage for what I hope will be a very successful campaign. If not then maybe my unused entry fee could go towards starting some sort of legal defense fund in order to ensure that in the future we are treated with more respect and dignity that we are currently being treated with now. Either way the money is theirs to do with whatever they feel is best, as I can only thank them for the incredible job that they do and hope that they will continue to fight to keep this beautiful and spectacular ride going for many years to come.

To all of the riders who decide to still participate in this year’s event, I hope you have the very best of times and a very safe ride. I urge you to get involved and even harder yet, get your riding buddies involved. Seek out any petitions or letter writing tables that NWT&T has set up and above all, enjoy yourself and set a good example for the rest of us. I sure will miss riding this year’s Black Dog.

Sadly,

Neil Tosuntikool
AMA#: 633794
’04 Black Dog #: 93 (unused)

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Postby miloj » Mon Jul 05, 2004 11:29 pm

Awesome post Neil! You're a class act. I felt the same letdown and anger when I heard the news from Tom personally. Having been a part of his crew helping set up the course and sweeping the past two years, I know he goes out of his way to abide by the wishes of all governing bodies and landowners involved. I'll be joining him Thursday to help set up the course and will relay your message to him. He needs to hear it as it's support from fine folks like you that gives him the motivation to keep up the fight.
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Postby Weasel » Tue Jul 06, 2004 10:19 am

Tom,

You run an outstanding event and it has been a thrill to ride in it the last couple of years...

I'm concerned about what is going on here (and other places). The day has already arrived when it isn't good enough to just own your motorcycle. We HAVE to start getting involved with access issues that we face or the slow erosion of available riding areas will continue. The enviromental types are VERY well funded and VERY motivated. I will be writing to the USFS on this one too...

By the way, though groups like the Blue Ribbon Coalition are on our side and doing a good job, they aren't the entire answer. We can't count on their work alone to keep public lands accessible to OHV use. Write your Senator, Congressman, BLM guru! Do it! It makes a difference! If you don't then there will be no room for complaining in the end...

Tumbleweed can back me up on this one: during my first Black Dog ride we fell victim to the infamous move the marking ribbons on the trail to a dead end (off the marked course) trail. I wonder if those are the places where they were taking their pictures? My point is that we need to make sure that the USFS people understand that this is a possibility, especially if they don't have pictures of the bike or a number...the enviro's are pretty sneeky these days. :twisted:

My letter goes out this week.

See you Friday! :D

WeasEl
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Postby Dive » Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:56 pm

Hey Neil,

Like Milo said, "great post" ... but woudn't it be better for us as riders to show up and give Tom and his crew the support they rightly deserve.

I can truely understand your frustrations at the USFS and I agree with you whole heartidly.

I hope that someone from the USFS is actually at the event to take some questions from us. As I intend to point out the USFS APPROVED stamp on my exhaust and then ask why they won't let my approve bike ride on there lands ?

There excuse for no trails seems feeble and quite frankly un-justified.

Dave
Salem.

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Postby lrj » Thu Jul 08, 2004 9:14 am

I also think Neil's post was exceptional. Neil, I hope you will send a copy of that letter to the USFS. It would also be good to submit it as a letter to the editor of every newspaper you can think of and e-mail a copy to your state and federal representatives, too. My husband and I are frequent contributors to our local paper (he is much more prolific than I am). In fact, I think his latest article was posted on the Thumpertalk message board. At any rate, we will certainly write a letter to the forest service. I am also considering mentioning the threat to the Black Dog event to every merchant we patronize in the Zig Zag area. We would not be purchasing their products and services if it were not for the Black Dog and perhaps they might be motivated to also write letters. Just a thought. :roll:

We're looking forward to a great time, even without the single track. Keep up the good work Tom!
Attack life! It's going to kill you anyway.

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Postby Bonnie Meadowes » Thu Jul 08, 2004 10:32 pm

we do the hot dog
we do the dust dawg
we ride the edge of the cliff toward bonnie meadow
we camp out in the rain
and slide around in the mud

we saw the horse wagon train
on the barlow trail reinact ing
the very first off road thing
stomping the adobie mud

been through Mc Cubbins forwards and backwards
got lost with chuck sun once
he cooked a great lunch
once a pon a time

never thought the world would come to this
but it has

wildlands UN unfolding in front of your face
i would like (in better times)
to be nice to the US forest "service"
but they are no friend
of mine

#42 see you there
bin rydin

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Postby Tawmass » Tue Jul 13, 2004 3:51 pm

Lee,
I had no idea you had Longfellow roots, amigo! :lol:
-Tom
You don't stop riding because you grow old, you grow old because you stop riding.

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Postby Bonnie Meadowes » Tue Jul 13, 2004 5:44 pm

Tawm, this has to remain a secret, so i will post it on the internet
where the UNFS can read it loud and clear
I have it on good intelligence (right from John Ashcroft) that bin Rydin was spotted up on Gumjawac Sunday morning
TSA pulled all their agents out of airport sequrity and sent C-130s loaded with undercover wagon trains up the Barlow in pursuit
Inteligence says that bin is up in the Beaver Wilderness somewhere
with his main squeeze "bin Riden" and 19 anti eco terrorists
they were trained in the use of clapped out YZ 490's somewhere on an airstrip in Florida to "land but not take off on theze bikes of mass confusion"
apparently under those innocent looking wagon tarps were
unmanned preditor drones
powered by XR 50 motors punched out by FMC to over 900.000 cc's
Janet Reno (she was "disguized" the lead horse)
handed me a peanut butter and soybean sandwitch as I went by

inside was a note from the FS Hood River supervisor that said
"TAWM, I am sorry I could not divulge the serious nature of our covert operation, nAtionaL In Secuity code #SoU812 states, we do not have to inform you when we perpousely ram a wagontrain into a motorcycle ralley, hope you understand..."
More in the mail
PS UNFS "you won't find what you are looking for here"
try PETA, oh thats right YOU ARE PETA
Last edited by Bonnie Meadowes on Thu Jul 15, 2004 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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security level set on "dust"

Postby Bonnie Meadowes » Thu Jul 15, 2004 7:11 pm

Did you see this story on page 10-11 of the July Blue Ribbon?
It says the "service" is monitoring off road websites, and seeing if two or more people are planning an "organized" ride, then wanting them to get a permit, see it at link
http://www.sharetrails.org/magazine.cfm?story=439
it is nothin to worry about
bin Rydin

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So yesterday I emailed myself at work

Postby Bonnie Meadowes » Thu Jul 15, 2004 7:50 pm

"Oh bonnie" i asked
"would you like to go rydin with me after worK" (bin Rydin)
since i am somewhat "different" by reflex
at work i answered from a seperate email
"yo you big xr 250 clap[>ped out dude"
"lets git together after work on UNF # 150 spur off the emily road"
"we could do all the deinventoried stuff first"
"then grunt our way into the late sucsational reserve" (bin Riden)

http://www.tadream.net/midi/TANGERINE/TIMESQ.MID (open in a nude window)...

lets see if the UNFS Spy censor will make a case for "diversity" over this

bin rydin makes for bin ridens dust traile
they know not the boundaries
they hear not the green sirens call
they ride the friggin trail

and only gps chips follow

http://www.tadream.net/midi/TANGERINE/F ... _waves.mid

hidden behind desks with badges of UN dishonor
gun toating hippo criets fire unfillable forms
and study their enemies "habitates"
close this ~ de inventory that
remove at
the last minute the trail sections
then expect respect from bin Riden

well not forth coming at the momment
PUBLIC enimies holding power upon the public
called "USERS", asked to get a "permit" to ride
the publics land
these burners of forests have defiled so many family jobs
in the name of a cold blooded fish
who's habitate was incinerated with fireballs dropped

they blaim your tire track
up upon the ridge

the ryders off upon the last fling
feel something but
don't know what

bin riden weeps


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